fat burning workout

[mcav]

Hey everyone-
I posted in the stacks forum about establishing a fat burning stack in order to be able to eventually do longer cardio at a higher level (ie marathons, triathalons). The overwhelming answer was to incorporate jack3d (which I already do), recreate (which I already do), anabolic pump (new) and powerfull (new), along with my flax oil, glucosamine, and multivitamin. For the record, I'm 28, male, 6'4, 250, and 24% bf.
I've drawn up this weight routine and wanted to get input on it. Good/bad? Any suggestions? Again, my goal is not get to get huge...just lean out, cut fat, and tone up. Would love to hear input.

Routine:
1 – bi’s/tri’s/chest
Bicep Curls – 3x12
Bicep Hammer Curls – 2x12
Overhead Tricep Curls – 4x10
Tricep Pushdowns -3x15
Dumbbell Chest Press – 3x10
Dumbbell Incline Press - 3x10
Dumbbell Flys - 3x10
Cardio – long hike (15+ mountaineering miles) or 1.5 hours elliptical
Abs – 100 crunches, 25 each side obliques

2 – Legs
Leg Press (4x12, 10, 8, 6)
Leg Extension - 4x12
Leg Curl - 4x10-12
Calf Raise - 4x15
Cardio - Swimming – 35 minutes free style
Abs – 100 crunches, 25 each side obliques

3. Lats/Shoulders/Abs
Wide Grip Pulldown - 3x12
Seated Lat Row - 3x12
Dumbbell Shoulder Press - 3x12
Cardio – medium hike (10-12 mountaineering miles, normally) or 1 hour elliptical
Abs – max out on ball crunches

4. – bi’s/tri’s/chest
Bicep Curls – 3x12
Bicep Hammer Curls – 2x12
Overhead Tricep Curls – 4x10
Tricep Pushdowns -3x15
Dumbbell Chest Press – 3x10
Dumbbell Incline Press - 3x10
Dumbbell Flys - 3x10
Cardio – 35 minutes freestyle swimming
Abs – 50 crunches

5. – Legs
Leg Press (4x12, 10, 8, 6)
Leg Extension - 4x12
Leg Curl - 4x10-12
Calf Raise - 4x15
Cardio – 30 minutes exercise bike
Abs – 100 crunches, 25 each side obliques

6. Lats/Shoulders/Abs
Wide Grip Pulldown - 3x12
Seated Lat Row - 3x12
Dumbbell Shoulder Press - 3x12
Cardio – medium hike, 1 hour elliptical, or 30 minutes freestyle swimming
Abs – 100 crunches, 25 each side obliques

7. Day off

[snagency]

couple points:

that's pretty extensive and a lot of volume to run 6 on/1 off like that..I might recommend running a 3 on/1 off split instead, get a rest day in there. you could even do the cardio on an 'off-weight' day if you wanted..

which brings me to the next point: are you splitting up the weight/cardio sessions? if not, that's a ton of work/time to be training non-stop, and compounded once again by 6 on/1 off, I can see you running into overtraining issues..

also: are you intentionally trying to use the 'pre-fatigue' method in your weight sessions? you're working smaller muscles first, then larger on days 1, 3, 4, and 6. I understand you're not trying to get huge as you say, but IMO you'd be better served reversing the order of those exercises, or at the very least running them as is thru the first half of the week and then the second time thru reverse the order, and so on..

lastly: where are the squats, deadlifts, and bent BB rows? seriously, these compound movements are king -- for both muscle-gain as well as fat-loss!

[mcav]

Thanks for your input! I've rearranged things a bit and am posting the new routine below. On lift days, I'm lifting in the morning and swimming at night. Is this any better?

1 – bi’s/tri’s/chest
Dumbbell Chest Press – 3x10
Dumbbell Incline Press - 3x10
Dumbbell Flys - 3x10
Overhead Tricep Curls – 4x10
Tricep Pushdowns -3x15
Bicep Curls – 3x12
Bicep Hammer Curls – 2x12
Abs – 100 crunches, 25 each side obliques
Night: Cardio - Swimming – 35 minutes free style

2 – Cardio – 75 mins of elliptical or a 5-10 mile hike

3 – Legs
Leg Press 4x12
Squats – 4x10
Deadlifts – 4x10
Leg Extension - 4x12
Leg Curl - 4x10-12
Calf Raise - 4x15
Abs – 100 crunches, 25 each side obliques
Night: Cardio - Swimming – 35 minutes free style

4 – Cardio – 75 mins of elliptical or a 5-10 mile hike

5. Lats/Shoulders/Back/Abs
Dumbbell Shoulder Press - 3x12
Bent BB rows – 4x10
Seated Lat Row - 3x12
Wide Grip Pulldown - 3x12
Abs – max out on ball crunches
Night: Cardio - Swimming – 35 minutes free style

6 – Long Hike (15+ miles)

7. Day off

[snagency]

definitely like that better for your goals..

some ppl would frown on the squats/deads on same day, but not me -- I run them like that quite often.

for that leg day, you may want to prioritize leg extensions first (to warm the legs/joints up), then squats, leg press, followed by deads, finish with leg curls and calves, abs. just a suggestion -- the leg press could function as the warming for you in the order you have it currently, but I'm partial to extensions if I'm not leading off with squats themselves first.. your leg day is quite voluminous! you can mix things up to see what works for you.

[mcav]

thanks so much! i'm gonna change up my workout routine per your suggestions. take care.

[snagency]

let us know how things are progressing!

[mcav]

so 10 days into this whole thing... here's a report.
this is the routine i've been doing, basically:
1 – bi’s/tri’s/chest
Dumbbell Chest Press – 3x10
Dumbbell Incline Press - 3x10
Dumbbell Flys - 3x10
Tricep Pushdowns -3x15
Bicep Curls – 3x12
Bicep Hammer Curls – 2x12
Abs – 100 crunches, 25 each side obliques
Night: Cardio - Swimming – 30 minutes free style

2 – Cardio – 50 mins of high intensity elliptical

3 – Legs
Squats – 4x10
Deadlifts – 4x10
Leg Extension - 4x12
Leg Curl - 4x10-12
Calf Raise - 4x15 (2 sets toes in, 2 sets toes outward)
Abs – 100 crunches, 25 each side obliques
Night: Cardio - Swimming – 30 minutes free style

4 – Cardio – 55 mins of high interval elliptical

5. Lats/Shoulders/Back/Abs
Shoulder Press - 3x12
Bent BB rows – 4x10
Rotary Shoulder - 3x15
Seated Lat Row - 3x12
Wide Grip Pulldown - 3x12

Abs – max out on ball crunches
Night: Cardio - Swimming – 35 minutes free style

6 - Hour of elliptical

7. Day off

My stack is:
Breakfast: Recreate (2) Anabolic Pump (1), Powerfull (3), Vitamin, 2 Flax oils, 3 scoops of Jack3d

(workout)

Lunch/Midday: Anabolic Pump (1), 2 Flax Oils, Glucosamine (1)

Dinner: Recreate (2), Anabolic Pump (1), 2 Flax Oils, Glucosamine (1)

(Cardio M-W-F)

Before bed: Powerfull (3), Vitamin


And now the good stuff:
I don't have a lot of measurable results, since I am still starting out. My weight has actually gone up about a pound... I would guess that's from the Jack3d and probably from muscles retaining a little more water? However, I feel that my arms, legs, and chest have gotten much bigger very quickly. My cardio, at first, seemed to have gone down, but it seems like I am rebounding and my aerobic conditioning is returning to normal (which is a very high level of endurance). I haven't taken my bf, but I plan to in the next week or two and I will report that.

One question I did have - I noticed that Jack3d has creatine in it. It seems like it may have a bit more creatine than traditional NO products I used (ie Hypershock and SuperPump). I haven't noticed creatine cramping, but when I've used higher doses of creatine in the past, I've noticed my endurance levels drop (ie not being able to run past an hour when I can normally do 2-3).

My question: Being that toning/fat loss/aerobic conditioning is my ultimate goal, is Jack3d the best product for me?

One more question: would adding/using p-slin help wiht any of this?

But yeah, good results so far. I'll keep posting.

[snagency]

Originally Posted by mcav

My stack is:
Breakfast: Recreate (2) Anabolic Pump (1), Powerfull (3), Vitamin, 2 Flax oils, 3 scoops of Jack3d

explain how you are taking your supps around this breakfast feeding, also what you are eating for this meal, and how long following this the workout comes.

(workout)

Lunch/Midday: Anabolic Pump (1), 2 Flax Oils, Glucosamine (1)

Dinner: Recreate (2), Anabolic Pump (1), 2 Flax Oils, Glucosamine (1)

(Cardio M-W-F)

Before bed: Powerfull (3), Vitamin

if this is a multi-vitamin, you are better served taking this w/ a meal, and earlier in the day.

And now the good stuff:
I don't have a lot of measurable results, since I am still starting out. My weight has actually gone up about a pound... I would guess that's from the Jack3d and probably from muscles retaining a little more water? However, I feel that my arms, legs, and chest have gotten much bigger very quickly. My cardio, at first, seemed to have gone down, but it seems like I am rebounding and my aerobic conditioning is returning to normal (which is a very high level of endurance). I haven't taken my bf, but I plan to in the next week or two and I will report that.

One question I did have - I noticed that Jack3d has creatine in it. It seems like it may have a bit more creatine than traditional NO products I used (ie Hypershock and SuperPump). I haven't noticed creatine cramping, but when I've used higher doses of creatine in the past, I've noticed my endurance levels drop (ie not being able to run past an hour when I can normally do 2-3).

My question: Being that toning/fat loss/aerobic conditioning is my ultimate goal, is Jack3d the best product for me?

3 scoops of Jack3d contains @ 4.5g creatine monohydrate, which is not a large serving by any means..
if you are sensitive to creatine mono, then you could have some minor (temporary) bloating issues..but creatine is actually strategically a plus in your personal activity/goals:

Creatine Monohydrate

While we may negate the increase in Hydrogen ion levels in skeletal muscle by increasing carnosine levels, we still must overcome one more obstacle in order to allow us to prevent fatigue while working out. In this case, we must use a compound which can ultimately increase the adenosine triphosphate (ATP) levels in muscle. ATP, as we all know, is a high energy nucleotide which acts as the major energy carrying molecule in our bodies.

Consequently, muscle fatigue is also related to energy loss in skeletal muscle, specifically, ATP being converted to adenosine diphosphate (ADP). In effect, one phosphate group is lost and must be replenished in order for the muscle cell to continue on working.

By supplementing with creatine, we are able to increase the levels of phosphocreatine in muscle. Phosphocreatine is a high energy buffering compound which is able to donate a phosphate group to ADP, allowing the formation of ATP once again.
In short, we can prevent or reduce fatigue from occurring by increasing phosphocreatine levels, which in turn will allow for the regeneration of ATP from ADP.

By addressing both the regeneration of ATP, while also limiting Hydrogen ion accumulation, we are able to provide a one-two combination that effectively reduces fatigue to an amazing degree.

If this weren't enough, the compound we have included may also increase the swelling of muscle cells, possibly increasing protein synthesis or inhibiting catabolism; the end result being an increase in muscle mass.

While creatine monohydrate isn't new or ground-breaking, it's scientifically sound, proven millions of times over in the real-world and an absolute must in any pre-workout formula.

The "Best" Creatine?

It seems there have been a myriad of creatine products on the market in recent years; each and every one of them claim to improve upon the original creatine monohydrate. Yet, not one of them has ever been able to do so. Though, should this really be a surprise?

It has been known for some time now that creatine monohydrate's bioavailability is nearly 100%, despite many marketing attempts to make you believe otherwise.

Yet, each one of these products has claimed that they could improve the product in some way.

The only reason for the stomach issues associated with creatine was the loading phase that was promoted when creatine first came out. This has since been disproven & NOT needed to achieve desired results...

First it was the effervescent formulations, claiming that the buffered product could resist acidic degradation of creatine to creatinine in the stomach, while at the same time, decreasing the transit time for the creatine to enter the small intestine from the stomach, again, hypothetically reducing the amount of creatine degradation.

Last, it was supposed to improve solubility of the creatine in solution, hypothetically resulting in improved absorption. Yet, scientific studies showed no improvement in absorption or bioavailability with these formulations.

The next attempt was to improve creatine absorption with various salts, the latest of which appear to be tri-creatine citrate and creatine pyruvate. Yet again, as you would expect, studies have shown no significant increase in bioavailability over regular creatine monohydrate.

Don't be fooled by slick marketing; some manufacturers may cite a study which had shown slightly greater (although not statistically significant and hence not accepted as likely being unique) plasma concentrations of creatine with the pyruvate salt in particular.

However, they will most certainly and conveniently leave out the scientists' own conclusions, "The higher plasma concentration with Creatine Pyruvate is unlikely to have been due to greater bioavailability, since the bioavailability of Creatine Monohydrate is known to be close to 100%" and "It is questionable if the small differences observed in the plasma concentrations with the three treatments would have any effect on the increase in creatine in muscle."

Yet another example of these futile attempts includes the creatine ethyl ester. This particular product also boasted claims of improved bioavailability by preventing the degradation of creatine to creatinine in the stomach, while also improving physiochemical properties conducive of improved bioavailability.

Yet again, the product failed to do so. In fact, not only did the addition of the ethyl ester not help, it actually was shown to accelerate the degradation of creatine to creatinine in an acidic solution. It can be estimated from such studies that the bioavailability of the creatine ethyl ester is actually far less than regular creatine monohydrate, which again, is already nearly 100% to begin with.

Perhaps other manufacturers will finally get the hint that creatine monohydrate isn't going to be improved upon as there is virtually no room for improvement. Yet, that won't stop them as history has shown.

Creatine monohydrate after all is an effective product. In fact, it's probably one of, if not the most scientifically validated dietary supplement in existence and it delivers real world results as well.

But remember, the marketing arm of these companies are banking on the fact that creatine is such a great supplement; a supplement that has become a staple for nearly all athletes and weightlifters, that they want to create their own unique version, touting some supposed added benefits. But as you've learned, there is no such thing.

"Jacob, doesn't creatine need a delivery system?"

Delivery Systems? Delivery Systems? You Talkin' Bout Delivery Systems?

The lack of bio-availability is NOT what causes the side effects from creatine.

It's the "loading phase" (20-30 grams per day!) that was initially touted (and still used by some today) when creatine first hit the shelves in the 90's...

Absolutely "genius" in marketing, as the "loading phase" quadrupled initial sales and caused an almost instant water weight gain so users were thrilled...

However, it wasn't all sunshine...

Peak creatine concentration in the body has a ceiling. Meaning, when peak concentration is reached, the body has no more room for the extra creatine...

So, it "flushes" it out...And this is why creatine got a bad wrap for not "absorbing" when, in essence, it was poor application...

You only need a few grams of creatine per day, that's it...

After 7-14 days, whether you take 30 grams of creatine a day or 2 grams of creatine a day, your blood concentration levels of creatine will be exactly the same...

One more question: would adding/using p-slin help wiht any of this?

most definitely! Pslin is another tool in the toolbox, allowing for higher intake of carbs as it soaks up the glucose like a sponge -- perfect for preWO meals!

[mcav]

explain how you are taking your supps around this breakfast feeding, also what you are eating for this meal, and how long following this the workout comes.

i normally take my recreate, ap, vitamin and flax oil 20-30 minutes before eating oatmeal with splenda and a banana. shortly after that, i take the powerfull and jack3d and workout about 30 minutes after. is this good?

when/how should i use p-slin?

thanks for your help!

[snagency]

Originally Posted by mcav

i normally take my recreate, ap, vitamin and flax oil 20-30 minutes before eating oatmeal with splenda and a banana. shortly after that, i take the powerfull and jack3d and workout about 30 minutes after. is this good?

no..
okay, so take the RC and AP upon waking, follow 15min later with your breakfast/flax oil/Prime/vitamin.
1hr following breakfast, take PowerFULL/Jack3d.
30min later, train.

when/how should i use p-slin?

if using Pslin and keeping the same schedule, drop the AP upon rising, take Pslin instead, and up your carbs to the 80g range for breakfast. follow the same dosing guidelines for all other supps I listed above.