Cissus safety

[brunner]

There is a 1991 Indian journal report regarding Cissus: "cissus quadrangularis was mutagenic" Since they were looking at food items, it was probably the whole (ground) plant.

There is a more recent report in the South African Journal of Botany 20Apr 2007 that said "Lack of mutagenicity suggests that these plants are probably safe for use."
I'm assuming they used solvent extracts here (as does USPlabs(?))

Does anybody have any information on the safety of USPlabs Super Cissus Rx?

[Casey@USPlabs]

Originally Posted by brunner

There is a 1991 Indian journal report regarding Cissus: "cissus quadrangularis was mutagenic" Since they were looking at food items, it was probably the whole (ground) plant.

There is a more recent report in the South African Journal of Botany 20Apr 2007 that said "Lack of mutagenicity suggests that these plants are probably safe for use."
I'm assuming they used solvent extracts here (as does USPlabs(?))

Does anybody have any information on the safety of USPlabs Super Cissus Rx?

I did receive your private message, however, I was referencing another individual on this. Mr. Engel is our Scientific Affairs Representative.

"You cannot judge a book by its cover, nor a study by its abstract.

The term "mutagenic" is, in itself, really quite arbitrary. Without knowing what type of cells were being mutated (viral, human, bacterial etc) and the extent and type of the mutation itself (mutagen production, DNA modification, etc), information not commonly found in abstracts, it is really difficult to comment. In this case, however, the herbal preparations, perfurmes and the like being in the 1991 study were being tested as mutagens against Salmonella typhimurium; specifically, their capacity to reverse the DNA replication of the bacterium.

In reality, neither study suggests any danger for human consumption for Cissus, so the question is confusing. Again, "mutagenic" can mean a wide number of things and, in this case, the herbs were being tested for a so-called "anti-pathogenic" mutagenic capacity."
- Kenton Engel

Thank You for your question!

[brunner]

Thanks for the information Casey and Kenton. I recently bought several bottles of Super Cissus Rx - for my painful elbow tendonitis caused (?) by too many wide arm pullups and heavy hammer curls, and my wife's hamstring tendonitis. Getting much better after 1 week...will continue the therapy - good stuff for aging boomers!

[CEO@USPLabs]

Originally Posted by brunner

There is a 1991 Indian journal report regarding Cissus: "cissus quadrangularis was mutagenic" Since they were looking at food items, it was probably the whole (ground) plant.

There is a more recent report in the South African Journal of Botany 20Apr 2007 that said "Lack of mutagenicity suggests that these plants are probably safe for use."
I'm assuming they used solvent extracts here (as does USPlabs(?))

Does anybody have any information on the safety of USPlabs Super Cissus Rx?

just to add confindence...

These particular in vitro mutagenic assays must always be viewed with caution as they can often conflict with one another and sometimes produce false positives, or at the very least, positives that don't pan out in the in vivo assays. This is really the case with any in vitro assays.

Even in these particular studies, we seem some contradiction as one paper shows that garlic was able to inhibit mutagenicity, while in another study it is said to possess some mutagenicity.

Furthermore, these in vitro assays can also produce misleading results based upon the dose and also, in the case of plants, whether it is the whole plant or an extract (which Cissus RX is). Many plants can contain compounds that may produce toxicity or may possess mutagenic effects.

However, this is why it is important to make a distinction between an extract and the whole plant as you noted.

Last, going back to dose, this too is very important as even vitamin C is known to be mutagenic in these in vitro assays if the dose is high enough.

Regarding general safety, CQ has been studied in humans and animal models (visit pubmed.com) and has not demonstrated any severe adverse effects.

[Casey@USPlabs]

Originally Posted by CEO@USPLabs

just to add confindence...

These particular in vitro mutagenic assays must always be viewed with caution as they can often conflict with one another and sometimes produce false positives, or at the very least, positives that don't pan out in the in vivo assays. This is really the case with any in vitro assays.

Even in these particular studies, we seem some contradiction as one paper shows that garlic was able to inhibit mutagenicity, while in another study it is said to possess some mutagenicity.

Furthermore, these in vitro assays can also produce misleading results based upon the dose and also, in the case of plants, whether it is the whole plant or an extract (which Cissus RX is). Many plants can contain compounds that may produce toxicity or may possess mutagenic effects.

However, this is why it is important to make a distinction between an extract and the whole plant as you noted.

Last, going back to dose, this too is very important as even vitamin C is known to be mutagenic in these in vitro assays if the dose is high enough.

Regarding general safety, CQ has been studied in humans and animal models (visit pubmed.com) and has not demonstrated any severe adverse effects.

Thank You Jacob!