Ineffective product

[USPlabs]

Originally Posted by millerlite180

Once again another asinine post. No where did I ever say that the enzymes were "100% effective." In fact, in one of my previous posts I even said that the problem wasn't completely gone, but it was a lot better after treatment with the systemic (not digestive) enzymes.


And I never said that herbs do not work. I just said that the human body does not require herbs in order to function. Life goes on without herbs, but not so without vitamins/minerals. I also stated that they can help some conditions that have already incurred. This is on a case by case basis.

You apparently never were listening from the beginning. Only seeing what you want to see. This is typical when someone wants to believe all hype. I, on the other hand, like to see results. If something does not give me results, then I discard it and look for something else that does. It's not like i wanted to be injured, so I kept looking and finally I found something.

I advise anyone who reads all of these posts to do whatever you want to do. I only offer advice so that maybe something can help someone else.

Wow, you are a bit sensitive. How can I enter into a intelligent discussion when you are not well versed on the BASIC function proteolytic enzymes?

Here is a basic definition from any science book or science based website.

proteolytic enzymes
Enzymes produced and secreted by the pancreas which aid in the proteolysis of proteins in the digestive tract. Pancreatic proteolytic enzymes include trypsin, chymotrypsin and carboxypeptidase; these enzymes are secreted as zymogens, inactive precursors of the enzymes, and are activated in the lumen of the digestive canal. Another proteolytic enzyme, enteropeptidase, is associated with the brush border of enterocytes; this enzyme catalyses the conversion of trypsinogen into trypsin which, in turn, can activate a number of other pancreatic zymogens.


I will not stoop to name calling or attacking grammar on a forum(quick posting and not editing leads to mistake but the intelligent understand the basic argument and do not need to attack grammar when the basic statement is clear.) I'm a very busy man and sometimes I fail to edit and for that I apologize.

It is obvious we allow for open discussion on our forum, or your silly promoting and backwards thinking would of been deleted long ago so stick to the topic and stop your emotional posting.

[millerlite180]

Originally Posted by USPlabs

Wow, you are a bit sensitive. How can I enter into a intelligent discussion when you are not well versed on the BASIC function proteolytic enzymes?

Here is a basic definition from any science book or science based website.

proteolytic enzymes
Enzymes produced and secreted by the pancreas which aid in the proteolysis of proteins in the digestive tract. Pancreatic proteolytic enzymes include trypsin, chymotrypsin and carboxypeptidase; these enzymes are secreted as zymogens, inactive precursors of the enzymes, and are activated in the lumen of the digestive canal. Another proteolytic enzyme, enteropeptidase, is associated with the brush border of enterocytes; this enzyme catalyses the conversion of trypsinogen into trypsin which, in turn, can activate a number of other pancreatic zymogens.


I will not stoop to name calling or attacking grammar on a forum(quick posting and not editing leads to mistake but the intelligent understand the basic argument and do not need to attack grammar when the basic statement is clear.) I'm a very busy man and sometimes I fail to edit and for that I apologize.

It is obvious we allow for open discussion on our forum, or your silly promoting and backwards thinking would of been deleted long ago so stick to the topic and stop your emotional posting.

You state the definition of proteolytic enzymes but not systemic enzymes. There's a difference, of which can be read on any good package of them. The difference is the enteric coating (ph resistant) so they dissolve in the small intestine, thus not digesting any food whatsoever. You are partially correct on that these enzymes include trypsin, chymotrypsin, and carboxypeptidase. But there are more. such as pancreatin, pepsin, papain and a few others that are listed in the book I have in front of me right now. They are also much more expensive than digestive enzymes with an approximate 4:1 cost ratio.

I'm sorry, I'm not emotional. I just like cold hard facts. If you are not familiar with a product, yet attack it as with no real solid source, then you have no thesis.

The part that confuses me is how does any reputable company treat their customers like your representatives do. Ever heard of the customer is always right. Of course this is only a saying and not totally to be read literally, but any company that treats people on a forum (aka saying I'm posting gibberish when I have a master is Biology and know how proteases work in the body) like your past posts to me have dictated is disgraceful.

You won't ever see forums by companys for things that work, such as any vitamin, mineral, and so on. Even the makers of Wobenzym have no forums on their website. That's because their (any supplement company's) products usually speak for themselves in that they actually have many US studies as well as decades of many controlled, double blind scientific proof. For example, see Linus Pauling's PHd book on vitamin c.

I originally came onto this board to post what I see as a fact to me, that this product did not work. Now I'll be spreading it throughout my gym and everyone I know that takes supplements that this company's products didn't work for me and I was berrated in their own online forum by company reps.


Oh, and on the topic of deleting posts, freedom of speech regins supreme. Do some research of your own or at least try a product before making misleading statements to everyone on this board. I tried Cissus, even though I was afraid it wouldn't work. This because I wanted something to help speed my injury. Nowhere in all of my biology books could I find cissus quadrangularis, but yet I gave it a chance before posting my results.

On the other hand, all of the aforementioned products I talked about are listed at least once in many texts, especially proteases. We couldn't live without proteases, because like you said, we do need them to digest proteins. But new science is finding other uses for them when we can get them to pass through the stomach unharmed. This can be done with a good PH resistant coating. They enter the blood stream in 45 minutes as long as they are taken away from food. From there they circulate throughout the body breaking up fibrin and thinning the blood. The potential outcomes from this are amazing, yet our research is way behind the times (basically due to pharmaceutical companies not being able to charge high prices for natural substances).

[IronWarrior]

Originally Posted by millerlite180

I've used Super Cissus RX 800mg capsules. Followed dosing guidelines and took 150 capsules (full bottle sold at GNC). No benefits whatsoever. No pain relief at all. I have a muscle strain in my facial muscles and tendonitis. Save your money and buy something worthwhile, such as systemic enzymes. Wobenzym N (brand name) worked wonders for me and actually gets at the root of the problem for lots of people.

Flavenzym also works for me and is cheaper (Vitacost sells it). Just a thought.

Miller,

I am not knocking you in any way I just read the whole thread and a lot of the info you posted up seems valuable information.

However looking at your first post it was a little inflammatory. The wording in the original post does not reflect the sentiment you said later on in the thread being that you were only expressing that it did not work for you.
By saying Save your money and buy something worthwhile... in your first post you took on an antagonistic tone. Then suggested that others go buy a different product without trying this one. You did not say that exactly but "Save your money" means don't spend it here. That is not educating nor sharing information but directing his business elsewhere before the people you just told to save there money had a chance to try it for themselves. If they saved thier money and got the other stuff then they never really did get an oppurtunity to to see for themselves that it worked.

I am sure due to an injury I have in my chest I may also try some of these enzymes, as I was looking into Prolotherapy for it anyway. However, I do know that I myself have benefitted from SuperCissusRX as have many others.

I tip my hat to you for sharing your knowledge but in the future if you want it received better you may want to package it with less bias. If you did not have an alterior motive to sell another product then perhaps you were just expressing a strong personal dissatisfaction of your experience through passive aggression without realizing it.

As for USP Labs coming back ready to joust and protect thier investment / product... Of course they have some bias here for thier own products. Who wouldn't. If someone came up and said my kid, work, or anything I had put my effort into was worthless (once again not your exact word but "Save your money for something worthwhile" is saying that SuperCissusRx isn't.) I would get protective too as I believe from the assertive nature of your posts you would too.

Once again thanks for sharing the info on the enzymes, I will look into that as well as continue my use of SuperCissusRx

[snagency]

Originally Posted by millerlite180

You won't ever see forums by companys for things that work, such as any vitamin, mineral, and so on. Even the makers of Wobenzym have no forums on their website. That's because their (any supplement company's) products usually speak for themselves in that they actually have many US studies as well as decades of many controlled, double blind scientific proof.

LOL dude, you're getting carried away..
fact is, very few companies have a website period -- due to the hassle/expense of doing so. a company that takes the time to run a website for its' consumers/perusal by others should be commended, not bashed as simply an advertising gimmick (or false advertising, as you imply)..

Nowhere in all of my biology books could I find cissus quadrangularis

..yet they've been using this in India for centuries..
I'm sure they are a lot of (tried & true) Ayurvedic methods that won't show up in an American biology book..

[millerlite180]

Originally Posted by IronWarrior

Miller,

I am not knocking you in any way I just read the whole thread and a lot of the info you posted up seems valuable information.

However looking at your first post it was a little inflammatory. The wording in the original post does not reflect the sentiment you said later on in the thread being that you were only expressing that it did not work for you.
By saying Save your money and buy something worthwhile... in your first post you took on an antagonistic tone. Then suggested that others go buy a different product without trying this one. You did not say that exactly but "Save your money" means don't spend it here. That is not educating nor sharing information but directing his business elsewhere before the people you just told to save there money had a chance to try it for themselves. If they saved thier money and got the other stuff then they never really did get an oppurtunity to to see for themselves that it worked.

I am sure due to an injury I have in my chest I may also try some of these enzymes, as I was looking into Prolotherapy for it anyway. However, I do know that I myself have benefitted from SuperCissusRX as have many others.

I tip my hat to you for sharing your knowledge but in the future if you want it received better you may want to package it with less bias. If you did not have an alterior motive to sell another product then perhaps you were just expressing a strong personal dissatisfaction of your experience through passive aggression without realizing it.

As for USP Labs coming back ready to joust and protect thier investment / product... Of course they have some bias here for thier own products. Who wouldn't. If someone came up and said my kid, work, or anything I had put my effort into was worthless (once again not your exact word but "Save your money for something worthwhile" is saying that SuperCissusRx isn't.) I would get protective too as I believe from the assertive nature of your posts you would too.

Once again thanks for sharing the info on the enzymes, I will look into that as well as continue my use of SuperCissusRx

+1.....you make some valid points. I sometimes get a little passive aggressive without knowing it. I like how you came about though. Very intelligent post and logical post. What's your injury?

[millerlite180]

Originally Posted by snagency

LOL dude, you're getting carried away..
fact is, very few companies have a website period -- due to the hassle/expense of doing so. a company that takes the time to run a website for its' consumers/perusal by others should be commended, not bashed as simply an advertising gimmick (or false advertising, as you imply)..


..yet they've been using this in India for centuries..
I'm sure they are a lot of (tried & true) Ayurvedic methods that won't show up in an American biology book..

Ok. Some other valid points. I know Cissus is used in India, but systemic enzymes were mainly used in Germany. Obviously other vitamins are used everywhere. What's very interesting to me is that systemic enzymes (more specifically Wobenzym N/because that's the only one with proven studies apparently) is listed in the PDR (physician's desk reference). My brother in law is a neurosurgeon and showed me his PDR the one day and I couldn't believe that it was in it. He said they do have many potential uses. He was the one who actually got me thinking about them, which suprised me even more because most doctors now of days do not really advise use of supplements (other than omega 3s, and vitamins/minerals). Most docs usually stick to drugs since that what they learn about in medical school and they get kick-backs from drug companys. My brother in law said he only spend 1 class in his 10 year long study learning about natural supplements, mainly vitamins.


Just a few thoughts. I'm sure we'll see more mainstream uses for many natural things in the near future (aka I love how OMEGA 3's are now a prescription if you want to go that route). Vitamin c I'm sure will continue to make headlines, especially now that they are seeing that it can really have a huge impact on cancer when given in an IV.

[millerlite180]

Originally Posted by IronWarrior

Miller,


I am sure due to an injury I have in my chest I may also try some of these enzymes, as I was looking into Prolotherapy for it anyway.

Once again thanks for sharing the info on the enzymes, I will look into that as well as continue my use of SuperCissusRx

Hey Warrior,

I picked up on this when I reread your post a second time. It's interesting you mention prolotherapy. Most people shrug that off as nonsense, but it does have some uses it seems.

In all essence, as you can read from my previous posts, enzymes basically follow that theory on prolotherapy to a certain extent. Once you really understand the nature of what enzymes do, they don't inhibit Cox-1 or Cox-2 enzymes in the body like NSAIDS or other pain medicines do. Personally, I hardly ever take NSAIDS, even for a headache. I just wait it out. However, I wanted to follow my doctors advice to a T so that I couldn't be accused of not listening to what someone said who knows more on the subject of my injury that I did at the time.

Now I know better.....


Enzymes actually accelerate all phases of an injury. They don't mask any pain, they just make the inflammatory phase of the injury go a lot faster. Sometimes the pain is actually worse when starting out on the enzymes, especially chronic diseases that don't seem to heal.

This paves the way into the prolotherapy you are talking about. This is apparently useful in chronic injuries where you actually stimulate a little more inflammation temporarily in order to "reactivate" old injuries that have grown stagnant and won't heal, but yet cause nagging mild/moderate pain. In a basic sense, it tells the body that there is still an injury that needs to be healed (which apparently the body fogot about or isn't doing a good job of healing).

It'll be interesting to see where this new form of therapy take us in the future.

Enzymes are slightly similiar, although at nature's more basic level.


Let me know what's up with you and if you try that. I'd love to hear about it.